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September 27, 2009


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Well done for shaking off the shackles of a belief system that was causing you pain. The saudi salafi/wahhabi version of islam is particularly pernicious. To me it's not such a big step between rejecting one particular god and rejecting all of them. After all you dont have much contact with followers of Thor these days do you.

As a political movement the fundamentalist islamist parties need to be fought.However i cant agree with your comment that non-agressive muslims are not real muslims, just like all faiths and polities there are a range of beliefs. i lived as a women in the most populous muslim country Indonesia and their version of faith is a) somewhat strenuously deliniated from the public shpere and b)mild by western standards. Yes as a woman at times it gave me the sh*ts, but most of the cultural conflict I had was to do with being a westerner in an asian country. My firends were other educated women, who chose their family size and style and didn't veil except in religious settings.

I expect i would have a hard time in a quiverful community or a fundamentalist morman community in the states but i know that it would be unfair to judge all Americans by these throwbacks.

What you didn't mention is that many countries use the ultra fundies to throw the attention off their own corruption. (Particularly in Saudi, that's why OBL attacked his own people first). In this case religion is used as an excuse.

Leaving all that aside, personally I think we'd be better off with no religions at all except as a sometimes beautiful historical movement with cultural significance. It's certainly a perfect example for keeping church seperated from state.


Never forget. Under Islam.

It is perfectly acceptable to lie, if you believe it advances the goals of spreading islam or just to an infidel.


You obviously have no idea what "separation of church and state" means nor what its intention was.

I also doubt you even know that keep church and state separate was just an idea or a philosophy and is not a law.



There is a huge difference between islam and Christianity (and Judaism for that matter). I understand your desire for complete freedom from restraint that atheism provides you; many people are driven by that desire. However, just because you want a godless world to be true does not mean it is. The complexity of our very being and awareness of our existence should give you pause to consider an intelligent origin of life, matter and energy. I have heard and read many arguments on both sides, and I must say that through deductive reasoning I have came to the conclusion, God is. The best summarized argument I have heard to date that points towards an intelligent design was given by Perry Marshal, On this site is a one hour video presentation. I would be interested to hear your retort on this. Although Perry does not point at which god or alien life form spawned life on this earth he has presented an argument that has to this date been un-refuted philosophically or scientifically.

Another very interesting piece of scientific evidence that points to a sudden creation was delivered by a Dr. Robert Gentry, His nuclear research has also gone without credible refutation. You likely have not heard of him because he is obtuse of the Smithsonian and the tenured university scientists that have so much invested and at stake in their version of natural history.

Possibly, if you have watched and researched both of those sites you may have some doubt you your belief in nothingness. The next step is, If God is, then why, and who? To answer both questions I would point you to the works of a great philosopher and writer and Oxford professor CS Lewis. You may start with his early agnostic writings (before his conversion to Christianity) "Spirits in Bondage" to get a glimpse of the thinking of his youth. Next you may want to read his post transformation book "Mere Christianity." Although you may not be real exited about religion, reading such a classic will surely improve your anti-religion argument or at least provide dissemination between religion and cult.

Next, I would recommend a book written by an investigative journalist. The guy was the one who broke the story in the '70s on the Ford motor companies cover up of the rear end crash explosions of the Pinto. The man's name is Lee Strobel and when he set out to write his book he was an atheist and actually wasn't going to write a book. He was merely trying to compile evidence that would refute the existence of God and Jesus. His wife had recently converted to Christianity and it crimped his style. He wanted to break her faith with evidence. He ended up being one of the foremost writers of Christian apologetics and a born again Christian. His books are pretty short and read easy. I recommend "Case for Christ" and "Case for Faith."

Lastly, I believe the world if full of mystery. The book of Genesis is particularly full of mystery. I have read the creation account over and over and it seems new clues pop out each time. I am not completely convinced of a six earth day (144 hour) creation. The first couple chapters of Genesis give us clues of seasons or eras passing within a "day." To some I may be considered a heretic by uttering those statements, my answer to them- God is timeless and his nature as we can see through scripture is to let events occur naturally. I accept that if God truly did create it all in 6 days so be it. But 6 days or 6 million years are a trifle to him. Here is a fun read that does not answer any questions but certainly opens some. "Dead Men’s Secrets" by Jonathan Gray

If you have any particular hang ups, accusations or questions on Christianity please ask, one at a time.


Walt I do understand the need many humans have for faith, the universe is a wonderous awe inspiring thing and so can humans be. The "atheists are atheists because it gives them licence to be immoral" meme is below you 'tho. And obviously easily disproved. just as you would not want christianity judged by the behaviour of pedophile priests or abortion clinic doctor killers, the behaviour of an individual atheist does not mean atheists are less contstrained by morals than the relgious of whatever stripe. as the athor of the above piece argues relion can inspire some truly hideous behaviour.

We are all atheists of most gods, I am just an atheist of one more than you. (BTW CS Lewis is generally laughed at as a not so competant apologist outside of the already christian movement - certainly his "arguments" are fairly poor, just as pascal's wager will seldom grab a new adherent.

Of course the world and the universe and everthing in between is full of mystery, that is a joy and understanding as much of it as possible is our duty, consigning all curriosity to a pit called "god did it" is a waste and I would argue, a sin.

Philip France

I am disappointed here that the arguments in the comments betray the point of the article. I blame Yoyo for this, for lumping radical Islam with isolated incidents of religious fervor, which sensible believers immediately denounce. Before commenting further, I will applaud our friend Yoyo as the most articulate leftist that I have ever encountered. Yoyo, you are so close to the Truth. I implore you to stand back and take a neutral, rather than a defensive (and often offensive) position regarding spirituality.

Getting back to the article, which is well-articulated and (forgive the ironic adjective) enlightening. There is a major problem with Islam where lying and deceit is condoned and even encouraged. Until a reformation occurs refuting the Suras and Hadiths that condone “Taqqyeh”, Islam cannot be trusted.

We have the same problem with the man occupying our Oval Office. I am NOT saying that he is a Muslim. I AM saying that he is a liar. He has no compunction in telling lies and his lies are now in the thousands. I realize that this is changing the subject, but it is no less true.

To my dear friend Walt: I have composed a study of Creation that is based on a comparison of in-depth Biblical research and scientific evidence. It is amateur, but I have acquaintances in both Biblical expertise and scientific expertise that have praised my work. I would like to get it to you somehow. Perhaps we can “meet” through Selwyn Duke. I hereby authorize Selwyn to divulge my email address to Walt.

To my esteemed antagonist Yoyo (and you have earned my respect and esteem through your articulation, spell-check notwithstanding), you are crying out for the Truth that I know. You are SO close! If you are to take a position of net neutrality with regard to “religion” (as I did, many years ago) you will find that the Truth of God and the elements of creation are provable by its inherent and undeniable elegance. To this day, scientists know that they are on to something when they observe the elegance of the formulas that they discover. The incredible advances in discovery by history’s greatest scientists, namely Copernicus, Johannes Keppler, Galileo and Sir Isaac Newton (all devout men of God) show that their discoveries were cemented by the elegance of a Designing Intelligence. There is no getting around it.

May God bless you, one and all.

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