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« Friday's Savage Nation Appearance: Liberal Intolerance — Michael Savage's Cambridge Appearance Cancelled | Main | TNA Piece: Senate Obamacare Bill Could Ban Guns »

October 11, 2009

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Shaun

Although this is obviously not representative of every black and latino neighborhood this is pretty much commonplace in most of america's major cities. Also, this type of problem didn't exist 50 years ago. Yes, there was organized crime and there were gangs but nowhere near the level of today. As America continues to accept every blend of humanity in waves of millions expect to see this coming to a place near you. Yes sir, If diversity is a strength America is going to be arnold on steroids! Of course..maybe diversity isn't a strength and were committing national suicide......

Philip France

Thank you FDR. Thank you LBJ. Behold thy handiwork. A furher thanks to EMK (Edward M. Kennedy) and JEC (James Earl Carter) and now to BHO.

Behold the results of Socialism in an erstwhile free society. Behold it and weep. This is why I cry out against you leftist lunatics. When are you going to recite your penance? When will you own up to your pernicious world view... This is what your Socialist utopia looks like.

yoyo

So all those classic American movies, with one gang fighting another are NOT part of your culture? No Marlon Brando, no James Dean, no West Side Story? The Dakota War or the Sand Creek Massacre never happened?

This is just anti immigration chest thumping with a sprinkle of "BACK IN THE OLDEN DAYS" and a goodly shake of "I dont like those scary tanned young people".

Shaun

yoyo, You mentioned two different issues here. One is gang/group violence. As I mentioned earlier in the post violence has been around since the dawn of time and America is no exception. However, compare Los Angeles in 1950 (majority white) to Los Angeles in 2009 (Majority non-white) and the difference is self evident.

The other issue is an issue of race. Yoyo, there is absolutely no benefit in racial diversity. Take a look at American culture regarding race. It is the most devisive fault line in our country and instead of addressing the issue head on our politicians squirm and slime their way around it. Our culture has turned so virulently anti-white there is hardly any effort at discretion. As indicated by your post, you brush off the detrimental effects of mass immigration. Like I said..coming to a city near you!


Shaun

Walt

Yoyo said,

"So all those classic American movies, with one gang fighting another are NOT part of your culture? No Marlon Brando, no James Dean, no West Side Story?"

Yes they were and life has since immitated art. Such "art" perhaps was a simple mode of expression but such examples and more modern ones like Pulp Fiction are a part of the Gramsci Plan. It is working very well.

yoyo

Shaun and Walt, New York City had many riots/clashes amongst immigrant groups in the 1800's, this is no new thing. So who are you going to remove? There were efforts to stop the Irish and the Germans immigrating as recently as the 30's (in the case of the Germans). In my city there are clashes between teens/young men of different ethnic groups too, it tends to settle down once that groups is past the 2nd generation. However even then you will still have groups fighting over status, space and resources or even football identity.

As an aside, do you think the white gangs in prison are the good guys and the black and mexican/southamerican gangs are the baddies? Could it perhaps be that they are equally awful?

I am the daughter of immigrants (one an economic migrant from Ireland, the other escaping the war in Eurpoe) and if you go back far enough every one here who is not aboriginal is a decendent of immigrants. The odds are high that you men are not of Indian stock and your forebears came to America for a better life. Sounds like you dont want to extend that option to anyone else. Or is it just non whites you want to restrict?

Philip France

Another cheap shot by yoyo. I am disappointed by your, my darling.

Your "the odds are high" comment and further dialog suggest even more projection; i.e. the self-righteous notion that you what know what these (white) men are thinking. Whenever you do this you are wrong. You insult the commentators.

Darling yoyo, I appreciate your input but you must draw a line at presuming another's thoughts. It is impossible for you to do so (that is to know another's thoughts), since we are all strangers here, and it discredits your otherwise reasonable debate.

yoyo

Phil, I am not presuming your thoughts just your geneology. if you belong to one of the indian nations my bad.

Walt

The dynamic you describe is a result of multiculturalism. When a people group holds on to the culture of the place from which they fled rather than embracing the tenants and culture of the nation they escape to there will be problems. If a Muslim and a Jew move to NYC and live in apartments next to each other they can fight in the hallway or jump on board with the winning team and melt in the pot and become an American. Encouraging people to hang on to their heritage is a huge sales pitch by the left to keep the people divided so that they may set themselves up as the hero of the day.

Philip France

Actually, yoyo; you frequently presume thoughts and intentions. You seem to think that Americans who love their country fall into stereotypical templates of what you might refer to as "right-wingers" as though we are all automatons who check every "yes" box on the ballot applying for "racist, sexist, homophobe". You are free to be so insulting, but you are equally wrong.

You presume to know my geneology enough to comment on it. Pray tell, me: What is my geneology?

yoyo

Phil, that's why I made it VERY specific, if you are one of the aboriginal nations of America, then that SPECIFIC comment doesn't apply to you. Dont take on that hurt puppy look every time I make a response you dont want to answer. I assume we are all trying to argue in good faith. For that reason I did NOT call you rascist. What I stated (hopefully clearly) is that all new groups have some teething problems but there are also turf wars amongst young men for many different reasons rather than race.

Walt, a more thoughtful response to your comment. I understand the good intentions of those with 1970's models of multiculturalism. The basic idea was that we all carry baggage from our parents and forebears so let's celebrate it rather than feel ashamed. HOWEVER, I agree with you to this point, schools should be integrated, when our best friend is Fatima, Michelle, Sahib and Jack we are less likely to want to put down our neighbours (or bomb their countries). This is a primary reason for me hating faith based schools. I want muslim kids to understand that christians are not jackals, and christians to understand that hindus are not rice eating monkeys. No matter what their bigotted parents may think.

In the 1950's in Aus, catholics and protestants did not mix. It was social suicide to marry the wrong religion. Now it just looks beyond foolish to us that a school teacher would tell a student that their mother was going to hell.

Break the barriers dont reinforce them.

Shaun

"when our best friend is Fatima, Michelle, Sahib and Jack we are less likely to want to put down our neighbors (or bomb their countries)"

This is an entirely baseless statement. The bulk of evidence provided on inter racial relations in school shows just the opposite. From everything I have read and/or experienced race relations are fairly stable at the younger ages up until middle school. This is where racial identities begin to develop and those "fault lines" I mentioned come into play. Do you have any evidence to back up the quoted statement or is it ideological wishful thinking? How do you have a multi-racial society when kids are taught from day one that whites are racist(regardless of what they say or do) and that non-white children are incapable of being racist? How do you celebrate christopher columbus day? Is he a genocidal raving lunatic or a brave pioneer who brought western culture to the America's? You can't have it both ways.

Better question. Should any people in any country have a say as to what people they should let in their countries? Should we just erase borders and turn a blind eye? How come whites have to stand by and watch their language's be perverted, their street signs be changed, their national heroes and holidays be torn down and spat upon and the first person to raise a single objection is shouted down as "racist". For me..that name lost all effect a while ago.

Unfortunately, time is going to verify the self-evident failure of multi-culturalism. More unfortunate than that is the time bomb being created by the horrendous treatments to our racial tensions applied by politicians. Instead of listening to the people our leaders call us racist and insist on bringing in tens of more millions. Whether you agree with me or not time will tell and it doesn't take much brain power to see where this ship is heading.

yoyo

"How do you celebrate christopher columbus day? Is he a genocidal raving lunatic or a brave pioneer who brought western culture to the America's? You can't have it both ways."

I disagree, most kids are able to understand nuance. Our equivalent in Captain Cook. There have been considerable debates in my country about history should be taught, even called the history wars (not very imaginatively). One side argued that teachers were teaching "the blackarmband" mode eg:that the arrival of europeans was a disaster and that they were all cruel rascists, they called for a "positive" version of the settlement where the europeans brought enlightenment to the benighted aboriginals who were happy to welcome them to the country.

Infact what most schools end up teaching is a synthesis of these extremes. European settlement had many negative effects on aboriginal culture and life however this was not generally a deliberate policy. Many of the early governers were men of good faith who were trying to do their best in very difficult situations. (The colony nearly starved to death several times). There was much bravery and ingenuity on both sides.

I cant see a problem with teaching that Columbus was a brave man who was also a product of his times, therefore he did some amazing things and made some mistakes.

I would prefer that my children learnt that our founders were not gods just special people who made mistakes as well as achieved great things.

Why is it not possible to celebrate Columbus and great Indian leaders?

I find it hard to believe the "whites" are under the sustained attack you seem to fear.

Shaun

Yoyo, I completely agree with your reasoning regarding the subject of teaching history. I too am an advocate of teaching the truth as best we see it. Columbus and America's forefathers were not gods nor should they be presented as such. My use of Columbus was meant to illustrate a divide in societies that inevitably occurs when large racial bodies mix together. Race is a powerful group identity which often determines how one sees the world.

Believe what you want about the level of attack whites are or are not under. If you believe I exaggerate my statements above I will provide the sources. For the moment I will leave you with this. I am a very outspoken person and have been since as long as I can remember. For the last three years on campus I have stood up and challenged bogus claims and fraudulent history everytime our school has went overboard on it's white bashing..(the last time was a campus wide play showing "white" racism throughout history). Everytime I raise my voice, I swear every white kid crouches in fear and nobody will stand with me. However, once the storm clouds have cleared and the pressure is off whites come to me in scores and say how glad they are when I speak up and how they hate the way school shows history but are too afraid to sound off. This has happened so many times it's embarrassing.


Shaun

yoyo

Shaun I'm glad you can agree that history is not black or white (pun intended)however I think there is a substantial difference between feeling as if there's a backlash against "whites" and wanting to restrict immigration to particular european groups.

A small example, if you will bear with me, quite a few years ago I employed a young Somalian man in a role that involved working with young people. I was amazed by his personal history which had involved war, walking hundreds of miles across 2 countries and years in a refuge camp before he got to Aus. His religious background was christian aniamist, so he had 3 mothers and more than 20 siblings. You would think that this young man would have a major problem relating to the damaged homeless kids I employed him to work with. And honestly there WERE problems, he had trouble dealing with what he saw as the promiscuity of the young women but it was his character that was the gold in this situation and he became a very good youth worker. What I am saying in a round about way, is that the easiest thing in the world would be to assume the position would be best filled by a local and yet his very differences were strengths and both sides benefited by it.

Although "multicultualism" is a very mixed bag and at times has been implemented poorly I know my life has been improved by meeting people I otherwise would never had met and I hope that I have helped their introduction to my society.

Shaun

Fair enough. I wouldn't disagree with the general message your getting at. I am not against anyone because of their color/religion/background. I believe we are all God's creatures and deserve to be treated as such. However, I am also a realist who sees the inherit flaw of multi culturalism and the damage that inevitably comes when large bodies of different people are forced together. My views are basically libertarian in this regard and believe that people should be given the choice of association both on an individual level and on a national level. I think minorities are mere tools utilized by politicians to extend their power. Programs such as AA, quotas etc. merely point out the flaws in diversity and represent a governments best, although pathetic, attempt at fixing a disastrous situation and breed resentment and legitimate racism from the commoners.


Shaun

rushtothebathroom

Why don't you phonies drop the "flaw of multi culturalism" stuff and just say what you mean - WHITE POWER!

yoyo

Rush, I know that's what it sounds and looks like, but I've been trying to argue some of the issues with these guys. Their default position is the "poor whites" one, if you step though it, most of what they are saying is male breast beating rather than klan meetings.

Immigration is not a zero sum game, just because we have new influences does NOT mean that "whites" (whatever that means?) miss out.

rushtothebathroom

yoyo - I’m sure you’re heard the saying – “If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…It’s a duck.”

Same thing with these “border, language culture” junkies. Their essential position is that of White Power. They dress it up. But, it is still a racist position that maintains the superiority of white, Northern European, Christians over that of anyone else.

They don’t want to hear Spanish spoken in the United States. They don’t want Muslims given the opportunity to celebrate their religious holidays and traditions. They don’t want to see dark skinned people, being dark skinned people, in their neighborhoods whether those people are black, Latino, Hmoung or Arab.

“You can put lipstick on a pig,” as another saying goes. “But it’s still a pig.”

Walt

Do you think unity can be achieved through division? America nor Rome nor Greece nor any of the worlds great empires achieved greatness and longevity through division; quite the opposite. For our nation to flourish we must have a unity. Our nation grew in wisdom and stature because we had a unity. Our unity was not based upon color or tribe but upon the Christian value system which is one of open arms, self restraint, love and justice. We must unite around something why not the thing that paved the way to success. We should not celebrate our differences but our similarities. We should grasp and love the American apple pie hot dogs and Chevrolet culture and check the rest at the door. Why? Because it works.

yoyo

Rush, I know what you're saying. It's like arguing with older rural people from my country. if you dont call them on it they come out with the most egregious rascist, homophobic statements. However SOMETIMES when you tease it out they are just mouthing what they think they're neighbours are saying and actually they are really damn proud of their gay son or their vietnamese daughter-in-law, they just haven't quite realised that all change isn't bad.

A minor example, my grandfather was a seaman in the 2nd world war and came home absolutely HATING Japanese people (like many of his generation), he used to froth at the mouth that a few tourist sites in QLD used dual language signposts etc. However it took a close relationship with a japanese/aus nurse in his final years to break that crap down. Like the old saying goes, sometimes the personal is the political.

yoyo

Rush (sorry second time I apologise if this comes twice). I totally understand what you're saying, in my country older rural people often come out with the most egregious rascist and homophobic remarks, however, SOMETIMES if you tease it out you realise that they are just saying what they think their neighbours say and really they are as proud as punch of their gay son or their vietnamese daughter-in-law.

A small example my grumpy old granfather was a seaman in the 2nd world war and came back totally hating Japanese people (like many of his generation), he used to froth at the mouth because a few tourist precincts used dual language signage, it took a close relationship with a Japanese/Aus nurse in his final years to make him realise his error.

Walt your examples prove the opposite, Rome for example incorpoated many diverse cultures without subsuming them, even China today copes with the differences of the non Han minorities, they are allowed to speak their own languages and even have more children. If a regime like China can manage it why can't the states?

rushtothebathroom

Walt...Right you are...E Pluribus Unum..."Out of Many, One"...But, Walt that one has never been just Christian; or just white; or just the same, one like the other. We can be American and still embrace or individual heritage. We always have. And we still do. If you don't believe me, look at the names of the KIAs in Iraq...Asian names, Latino, Angelo, Native-American...you name it. That is the power of America. That's what works. Not, that hateful "borders, language, culture" mantra. And I think you're smart enough to get it.

Shaun

Is that really the best you have? I make a case why I see diversity (racial) a serious weakness to any state and you call me a racist. How original. Can you demonstrate how racial diversity is a benefit to any country, much less the United States? Race has been the most grievous fault line that has divided America from day one.

How do you have a united America when each racial group sees the world differently from one another? I’m not saying all people don’t appreciate freedom or any of the basic American values but let’s look at blacks and whites. Can you possibly be more divided than we are right now? What more does it take to illustrate? The Presidential election, the OJ Simpson trial, the IQ/test gap in schools,etc.

The whites of this country have invested endless sums to bring about equilibrium with blacks/hispanics, we have voted to discriminate against ourselves, we have allowed immigration legislation that will displace us, we send subsidies to companies to hire them, we dumb down our grading system to accommodate them and the more time goes on the greater the white/black divide increases. Tell me, how well did force busing in the schools work? After 50 years, billions of dollars, and complete white submission, most schools are more segregated now than they were 50 years ago. Do explain sir..why is that so? BTW That is not conjecture that is based on a sound study.

It seems everywhere I go I hear "diversity is a strength" being shouted from the places of authority and I laugh because all the evidence shows just the opposite. Nowhere in recorded history has a state undergone a complete and total demographic change like we are experiencing here in the states and ever survived. I say these things because I care about the future of myself, my family, and my country. In closing I would tell you what actions the U.S should take. An end to all race based, state sponsored, discrimination. No AA, no quotas, no double standards in the grading system where you get an extra 20 pts because your hispanic, no forcing private businesses' to hire X amount of people based on color...nothing zilch. Second, a temporary halt to widespread immigration (legal included) until we solve our illegal problem and unify our country a bit. How about we ask the people what immigration they would like?

In closing, If you wish to respond please do, but don’t call me names.

Shaun

Shaun

Walt I agree with you to a point. During the 50's whites and blacks shared a lot of christian values which did form a small bond between us. I believe white/black relations would be a lot better had the government not stepped in and destroyed the black family with their mass welfare programs. However, due to the evidence, I don't believe whites and blacks can ever live on equal levels in a given state. We can be at peace and form small bonds but IMO the two cultures are oil/water. Most blacks Ive came to know closely at least partially agree with me.

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