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October 20, 2009


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Savant Noir

"There is no word, however, on whether or not she admires Chairman Mao. " lol

I am not quite sure what it is I find the most revolting, "climate change" rhetoric or "homosexuality as normal" rhetoric. I will tolerate the notion of equal rights, but I am sick of having to stomach the concept of equality, and especially on these gay issues.

The 3 prevailing arguments that the gays give is that 'homosexuality' is no longer in the DSM (although it is hotly debated and will be the number one topic at the 2011 DSM revision meeting of the APA). It was removed from the DSM-IV by political pressure.

The second argument is that in psychometric testing they exhibit no anomalies that woudl distinguish them from any other heterosexual individual. Well, most of the paraphillia's reveal any psychometric deviations either. That does not make a Pedophile 'normal'. A pyscho-sexual developmental arrestment at an early age is not ego-dystonic to the host individual, which is why internally (excluding depressions that may be a result of societal non-acceptance) there is no discordance. LIke the axiom says, the absence of proof does not prove there just might be a wee bit of a problem here. No greater evidence to support the hypothesis of a potential problem can be made than the argument of procreation. Bob and Neil ain't nevah gonna contribute to the perpetuation of the species.

The 3rd rationalization is: "homosexuality is even present in the animal kingdom". it's not. The difference is in "drive". A dog does not look at another dog and think to themselves: "whoa..Rover is looking damn buff these days...I think I want a piece of that". Animal instinctual behavior does not have 'lust' at it's back.

The gay population in the U.S. is 4%, and I am sick of hearing about it. I don't walk down the street proclaiming my heterosexuality. If someone wants to be homosexual...go for it...get married, do whatever it is you want to do...but for God's sake, just bury your head in the pillow and keep your mouth's shut.

(sorry, had to vent) lol


Savant Noir althought you've tried to cover up your toe tapping comments here, (weird name btw clever black??). Ok you hate gay people bully for you. yes gay has been removed from the DSM because it made no bloody sense, just like the earlier idea that women who sought higher education were suffering from "wandering womb" syndrome. This was in part reinforced by the fact that absolutely NONE of the treatments for this psuedo condition had a success rate higher than 0. For example my country is still paying out compensation for men who were electrocuted on the basis that that would assist them in viewing other men with disdain, didn't work surprise surprise!
Your second point is actually one of the stronger, try substituting white for gay here and you'll see how stupid your argument is. Throwing word you have precious little understanding of will not blind a reading audience from the basic fact you find the mental picture of gay sex icky. Wow how special you are! Go and buy a copy of Huge Jugs weekly and you and 10% of homophobic truck drivers will feel like mates.
Thirdly yes animals practice gay behaviour and even choose same sex partners the red herring about drive has nothing to do with anything, how do you know what their drive is, how do you determine their conciousness?

I'm getting a little sickened by some of the posters on this site but the psuedo intellectual bigots are just appalling.

Whatever percentage of the population gay people are (I notice you kept it pretty male) at least you agree they have a right to marry, other than that most dont want anything to do with wingnuts.


Savant Noir,

Welcome, a strong mind is always welcome here and I enjoyed your post very much. And I would like to add one point to your well thought out perspective.

Leftists do not accept the religious resistance to homosexuality because they accept no god. From a humanistic/ Darwinistic perspective, I contend it is natural for a human parent to resist cultural acceptance to homosexuality. The strong have a desire to reproduce and see that their children carry on the blood line and since the human species lives so long and since the grandparents have a stake in genealogical perpetuation they too would have resistance to any impedance thereof. So from the position of Darwinism, it is only a natural cultural phenomenon to resist the normalization of a perverse trait that if fully mature, would eliminate the bloodline and eventually the race.

They say gay is normal I say resistance to gayness is normal. Even on their playing field (of a godless world) I think my argument wins.

Savant Noir

I do not determine animal's conciousness, biology does. Animals do not possess a blood-brain barrier, which is essential to higher cortical functioning. Hence, animals do not have the ability to think about their thoughts.

No, it was removed from the DSM under a massive political onslaught against it. Wandering womb has never been in the DSM. Do not mix temporal cultural issues with Psychology. Theories abound endlessly to address various cultural trends, but rarely do they become therapuetic protocols.

Once again you are wrong in your outcome assessments. In Santa Monica California they have a HUGE facility for "gays that don't want to be gay"...who perhaps at later aspects in their lives had events that may have moved them in an ego-dystonic manner (versus ego-systonic associated with homosexuality in general). Admission into this clinic is not for the purposes of ancilliary depressions or anxieties that may arise as an outcome of social non-acceptance. Testing is done in this regards. They also have success rates.

I am hardly homophobic, because quite frankly, I could care less what another wants to do. My concern is only when their "doings" infringe upon me. Homosexuals in this region of the world tend to be much more flamboyant and expressive than perhaps in other parts of the world. This is their form of retribution against their perceived oppressions. It is a petulant reaction and they enjoy "throwing it in your face". I don't enjoy having it thrown in my face. Period.

I do agree with one of your assestments. "I find gay sex 'icky'". Well yes I do, I cannot imagine sticking my organ in some place it was never intended to go, and then delight in the process while doing it. Its "icky". Interestingly enough, male-to-male homosexuality is deemed pretty much "icky" by most of the world's population, by both males and females alike. Conversely, female-to-female relations are more socially accepted in most of the world by both males and females alike. Curious, is it not?

The males first objects relations unit was mother. Opposite sex. Hence at formation there is a male-female bond. A woman's first love object relations unit was Mother (female), hence there will always be some form of female-female connectivity. This is why during our psycho-sexual development stages we go thru various aspects of ego/libido/super-ego processes that either result in normalized maturations, or may result in some abberation that can manifest in a multitude of ways. Although not ALL cases of homosexuality can fall into this category, most do. The excpetions are those that are genetically pre-disposed to this, which researchers would agree are few and far between, and even then this research itself is highly contestable.

I drive a Porsche and a BMW. Trucks aren't my style. Thanks for your concerns though. Have a nice day, no matter what.

(what was the name of that magazine again?) I am curious, how did YOU know of it?

Savant Noir

Yoyo (interesting name, is it meant to be synonomous to bi-polar?) The basic tenent of my post was the notion of "equality". In the eyes of the Law we were all created with unalienable rights, or the equal right conferred upon us to pursue happiness and success. That does not mean we were all created equal. We were not. We all have different aptitudes and drives. The opportunity for success lies awaiting anyone that chooses to pick up the pen and author a script for their life. (for those that do not have that equal opportunity, they should)

Many people with great intellectual capacity lack the inner drives to get off their butt and do anything about it though. They typically grow up to become Liberals. (with exceptions of course). Conservatives (in general) tend to work. Liberals tend to sit around and figure out how to re-distribute the produce and how to legislate it production. Different aptitudes.

I only used homosexuality as a forum to express my vehemence to this whole notion of "equality". It was the vehicle used because Selwyn highlighted the issue. Inasmuch that homosexuality is an issue that fuels many political 'schemes', it becomes a target for opposition. Special priviledges for Obesity would be met with my same abject disapproval. There are many people rightly or wrongly ridiculed or disadvantaged. Why should a gay have more rights than fat people. Why not support the Necrophiliac Society, afterall, their lovers are not protesting much...who are they really hurting? Where do you choose to draw the line in the sand; once it has accommodated YOUR special interest? Isn't that a bit selfish?

Go to work, keep your nose clean, take care of your family, and let life "live". We all have the equal right to life. Just live it, and keep your individual signature on HOW you wish to live it out of my face. It's your right. I respect anyone's right to do whatever. You want to put metal objects in your lips and tongue and my guest. You want to carve up your body or adorn yourself with my guest. You want to MANDATE I teach my kids that this is normal ain't gonna happen. Bob and Neil is no more normal than foisting the notion that a Necrophiliac has a right to marry dead people. Bob and Carcus may be someone's chosen lifestyle, but I don't want to see them adorning a 3rd graders book extolling the virtues of "diversity".


Savant, if you have any where near the undertsanding of the DSM that you profess you know that definitions and diagnosis change frequently as our understanding biology, biochemistry psychiatry and treatment improves. For example there have been major changes in recent years in the definition of schizopherenia and of manic depression (now scaled bi-polar) even the movies favourite the "psychotic" is now a useless term.

secondly, it is interesting that you find only one part of the spectrum of gay sex, anal sex icky. (I apologise for those who find this discussion too frank). Anal sex used to be called "Greek" sex colloquially because it was used as a method of preserving the hymen and therefore the pretense of virginity in macho cultures and it assisted as birth control. You and I might not add it to our repetoir of favoured acts but a high number of heterosexual couples do. As for oral sex in the last 20 years this has gone from an occasional practice to ubiquitous.

Many gay men suffer appallingly as gay men, how is it at all surprising that being gay could cause men (and women) psych distress particularly in a culture as overtly religious as the states? Mormon gays as expelled from their communities for gods sake! Hispanic communities are traditionally little more accepting. Again you are confusing case with effect.

Wow, men dont find the idea of lesbian sex icky?! Wow why would that be? Why has it been THE major theme of porn both soft and hard? Could it be the idea that there are 4 breasts instead of 2, and many men fanticise they could "turn" the women into a fun fledged trio with themselves?

Yes, the parades (Sydney has one of the largest in the world) are in your face. Yes it is confronting. Personally I dont like the vision of bare cheeks in chaps or find it arrousing at all. However, "Loud and proud" is an understandable response to an overly sexualized heterosexual culture. It's only once a year in most places, easy to advoid whereas it's almost impossible to avoid the Paris hilton type of hetero porn 24/7 in our media and on our streets. Most gay people I know are not distinguishable from any others of my friends. I dont discuss the intricasies of their sex lives as I dont discuss the intricasies of my other neighbours.

Relax dear Savant, no one is going to drag you unwillingly to their gay sex cave LOL. They just want to marry and raise their kids and bury their dead the way the rest of us do.


Go to work, keep your nose clean, take care of your family, and let life "live". We all have the equal right to life. Just live it, and keep your individual signature on HOW you wish to live it out of my face.""

neither I or any of my gay friends would have a problem with you description even if it is a little proscriptive. I work a very long week, and am a platinum flyer with 6 different airlines due to the industry i currently work in. It is not the vaguely liberarians that are causing gay people so much pain it is the hideous relgious bigots that cant be happy unless they are disciminating against another family.

Savant Noir

My understanding of the DSM is vast. It is nothing more than a statistical manual used in courts and for billing purposes. It is meaningless psychologically.

Thank you for raising the level of your language, I could understand you this time. I am not used to conversing in terms of "icky". LOL.

I have no sympathy for the gay community, nor any animosity in regards to their sexual orientation. If they were not overtly gay, they would not then put themselves in a position to be ridiculed in the first place. Unfortunately, obese individuals, or people that stutter, or perhaps some kid with bad acne...they cannot hide their pecularities from the world and probably suffer much more ridicule than any gay might have ever tolerated.

Inasmuch you seem to embrace this notion of bio-diversty, then I must point out that there are MANY subcultures representing a plethora of human sexuality. BDSM is perhaps the most recognizable one. They all have their highly intelligent rationalizations for the continuance of their behavior..brilliant actually. Although it is utterly flawed.

Ego defense systems are the construct of any individual that is not totally psychotic. Without them, they would be. All the rhetoric they wish to extol to rationalize the perpetuation of their behaviors is also fine by me. But I find it curious that all these other "alternate" lifestyles groups are not pervading our society, seeking out acceptance by demanding it, and complaining about their poor lot in life because someone might have ridiculued them. I see goofballs every day that are worthy of a chuckle or two. That is MY right to hold my opinion, so long as that opinion does not infringe upon another's right to hold theirs.

You cannot legislate the human emotive experience. I don't care how noble the theme is "why can't we all just get along", the answer is...Because we are human! We are rife with foible and folly. Maturity is the process of adaptation to the human experience. While our Globalists think they can get bugs, animals, and homogenous little human beings to sit around a campfire together in symbiotic euphoric harmony by MANDATING this, I have news for them: You put 2 men and one woman on an island together...i guarantee you, only one man and one woman will walk out of there alive. Why? Because we are human. Manmay one day evolve into some state of Satori...a blissful spiritual enlightenment....but it is a journey to be made by Man...not by Law.

(unless you have 2 men that are sadists, and one sadist is a boob guy, and the other sadist is a legs and butt kinda guy...then they could just chop her in half and walk out together and rationalize this action as "safe, sane, and consensual bio-diversity extraordaire). Don't you dare ridiculue or persecute the chain-saw gang!

Man may one day evolve into some state of Satori...a blissful spiritual enlightenment....but it is a journey to be made by Man...not by Law. To prive THIS point, no psychotherapuetic or psychoanalytic therapy ever had any succeess when the patient walks in and proclaims..."i am just so miserable, what shall I do"? I could say: "go home and get Enlightened, then you will be fine". (that will be $225, TYVM!)

Savant Noir

Religions divide. So? Beliefs divide. Opinions divide. Mankind is divisive by nature because at the core of every individual in every corner of the globe is the seed of their primary archaic narcissism, that having been reformatted exclaims unto self (subconsciously)...I am all that is Truth, I am all that is Virtue, I am all that is Beauty...and I shall never be denied.

The human existence is the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain. Each individual then sets into motion an eternal lawsuit with life, in which they are erroneously percieved as the motor center of the universe and must have life conform to their inner ideal images of how it should be.

As I said...human nature is what it is. The beauty of this divisiness is that ultimately it is our Benefactor. When their is outside intervention that demands this or that, then the lessons that await us cannot be discovered.

NO one EVER walked into my office complaining of happiness. When things are perceived as going OUR way, we feel internally a certain outpouring, a swelling, a satisfaction with "self", and it is perceived as the outcome of Self exerting Self over the world.

When we are in pain, we feel a diminishement, an ebbing of the life force, and it is perceived as OTHER, as life having consequence over Self.

This is the eternal dyad, the dance of the opposites. Reconciliation of this dyad medically is called homeostasis. Psychologically it is called synergy or integration...Spiritually it is called enlightenment.

Just as the patient in pain grows (inasmuch the therapy probably produced some positive outcome), it is our nature that only Pain is our motivator. No one ever grows thru happiness. It is curious...but totally understandable and explanable. So, if the gay should suffer pain, then he now has an opportunity for personal growth in which he/she may rise to a higher level of consciousness, OR, they can seek to control the world in order to contain them. They have ceased to grow, and the rest of the world is just pissed off.

The sun shines on the forest and helps in its growth. But without the rain, the forest would die. Pain is just rain for the heart, and without it, one will never grow...they are in a perpetual state of decay and seek to ameliorate their own ineptitudes by making OTHERS responsible for SELF.

Savant Noir

"and am a platinum flyer with 6 different airlines"

Well, this explains everything! Your head is always in the clouds while my feet are on the ground. Now how is that for a perfect symbiotic male/female relation. Bet you're glad I am here now to help keep you rooted in reality a bit, huh? lol

Philip France

Dearest Yoyo (how appropriate your moniker);

You have just gotten your clock cleaned (by Savant). I doubt that you will admit it although to all of the rest of us that are rational thinkers, it is abundantly obvious.

You have gotten your clock cleaned by me as well, on several occasions. This is evidenced by the many (if not now countless) walk-off replies I have made that you dare not challenge. The difference is that Savant brilliantly demonstrated his superior argument through secular and humanistic demonstrations and proofs (for which I applaud him and envy him) whereas my arguments are rooted more so in Godly and eternal doctrine (although I have also overwhelmed you with earthly facts). Either way, you lose.

I reach out my hand to you. You have been shown to be derelict in the causes in which you espouse. Abundantly so. I am offering my hand to you to set your socio-political ideologies aright. You see, darling; I can love you while disagreeing with you. You are a masterpiece, designed by the Almighty to be uniquely YOU. However much I disagree with you, I still know that you are a miracle; a one-and-only masterpiece designed by The Master’s Holy Hand.

I implore you lovingly to embrace my offer and at least TRY to understand how very special you are eternally, not temporally. I can show you.

Sanctify them through thy truth. Thy word is truth. ~ John 17:17.

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