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December 12, 2009

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Walt

What a bunch of sick scum!!! How dare they scare the kids like that! I am loosing more faith in humanity each day. Just remember, a one world government is the goal of these Necromongers.

BN

That kind of indoctrination toward the state, away from parents, and with a religious aspect thrown in (environmental wackoism) is technically and actually fascistic.

yoyo

This is one topic that i will not say too much on because i admit to being too busy to read deeply on it. I promise it's not based on the fact that my industry is one of the worst culprits.

My basic stance would be that I dont know the best strategy but doing nothing seems to be an extremely high risk non strategy.

Anyway, I've include a brief link for dear Phil on what's the worst that could happen. Promise it's not boring! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ&feature=player_embedded#

Pascal

Yoyo, your video link purports to have arrived at the inescapable conclusion of the worst that could happen. It uses a variation of Pascal's Wager, and simply uses it to force feed the "Precautionary Principle" down the throats of some very gullible people.

And I'll quickly point out that it is also dead wrong.

Every one of the things that he listed in the No-No Box also belongs in the yes-yes box, albeit for the different reason that people will indeed cause the bad things to happen in column A, whereas there is little evidence we have any significant effect on whatever the climate will ultimately do. So what it comes down to is the choice of letting a global governing system force restrictions on everyone that will bring not only large money costs, but reductions in healthcare, and in populations by starvation (like is going on in Zimbabwe right now), and increases in social unrest when people catch on they've been lied to.


Worldwide, drastic reductions in population have already begun -- millions have starved due to the burning of corn as fuel instead of feeding people, and inhuman "birth control" methods in China.

Need i remind you, Yoyo, that the collectivist philosophy of the radical left wound up systematically murdering 100 million people in the 20th Century living under Communist and National Socialist governments.

I know a great many on the Left can hardly wait for that sort of thinking to be running the world. Does that include you?

Matt

Science is never wrong in the present. Only the past.

Every generation of scientist thinks they're brilliant and the last generation was stupid. That they have it right this time and that they are without error.

But of course, yoyo is a hypocrite. The leftists scream, but all this could happen, WE CANT RISK NOT DOING IT! Like you said, a variation of pascals wager. Which of course if the leftists were so on the side of doing things "just incase" they would all be some sort of God fearing religion. If you wager that God exists and He does, you win everything (heaven). If he doesn't, you lose nothing. If you wager that he doesn't exist, and he doesn't, you lose nothing. If he does, you lose everything(damnation). Clearly the superior option is to wager he does exist.

So, yoyo, ill expect you, and all you atheists to be at church in the morning, lest you risk everything and lose everything. I mean, living like he doesn't is a....how did you put it? "an extremely high risk non strategy"

Walt

Yoyo, if this vid is the best you have got, your argument is pretty weak. One simple problem with his little graph is that in his "action yes column" under false he had global economic depression but under true he had a smiley face. If we choose the "action yes" whether true or false the result will be the same...economic depression.

He is also very short sighted on the effects of global governance and the devastating effect of the implementation of Agenda 21. Yes his argument is simple...so much so it is worthless.

What is the solution? Let’s have a real forum!!!! Lord Monckton and thousands of actual scientists have challenged Algore and his Gestapo to a debate. In response they have figuratively placed their fingers in their ears and said lalalalalalalal. How about congressional hearings? How about a special presentation of evidence to the Supreme Court? Why the confusion of true or false? The truth is out there...let’s discover it.

What your simple minded boy on the video is saying is just in case AGW is true lets change the entire structure of the world as we know it; submit to a one world government, move all of the humans into cities and control every aspect of their lives....You know like cattle in a feedlot. Mooooooo


PS Good point Matt.

Pascal

SELWYN: For some reason your preview feature malfunctioned last night. It appeared for but a second and then moved on to a blank page. I had to click my browser's back button to recover. I tried several times, but it never performed as expected. My reply above suffers from lack of proper editing.

What I hope is a clearer and better laid out commentary can be found at Traffic-Light Propagandist.

--------------------------------
FYI -- Preview is working for me this morning. Was it a temporary glitch last night? Has anybody else experienced the problem either last night or at other times?

Philip France

Precious yoyo,

With respect to your being "too busy" to read up on a topic that you uphold (which means you have not read opposing viewpoints, let me make it easy for you. You can't be that much busier than me.

The Tribune - Reader Submissions

Br-r-r! Where did global warming go? - The Boston Globe

CFP: Environmental extremism must be put in its place in the climate debate

Study Says Glaciers Formed During a Very Warm Period - New York Times

CFP: ‘Medieval Environmentalists’ attack CO2 in their efforts to derail civili

Will Media Expose Global Warming Con Job?

Studies conclude that biofuels are not so green - International Herald Tribune

Baliunas Says Global Warming Related To Sun

Reuters AlertNet - GM exec stands by calling global warming a 'crock'

Coastal Growth, Not Global Warming, Blamed for Rising Storm Losses

Hawaii Reporter: Hawaii Reporter

Studies Warn Of Mercury Risk In Energy-Saving Bulbs - Health News Story - WCVB

Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/03/02/2008-03-02_penn_prof_still

FOXNews.com - Global Warming: Is It Really a Crisis? - Opinion

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3500954.ece

31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda2

Expert: "We're brainwashing our children" about global warming - The Weather G

Global warming: Just deal with it, some scientists say - Los Angeles Times

The media snowjob on global warming

Gore's Message To Climate Change Skeptics, Tells 60 Minutes That Doubting Glob

FOXNews.com - Scientist: Forget Global Warming, Prepare for New Ice Age - Scie

Food Crisis Starts Eclipsing Climate Change Worries | The New York Sun

FOXNews.com - Hurricane Expert: School Silencing Me Over Global-Warming Views

Regarding the Lieberman-Warner Debate, Rep. Rohrabacher: “Do you really think

John Coleman's Comments Before the San Diego Chamber of Commerce | KUSI - News

No smoking hot spot | The Australian

Icy reality cools the climate cultists | Daily Telegraph Piers Akerman Blog

Lorne Gunter: Thirty years of warmer temperatures go poof - Full Comment

Global warning: We are actually heading towards a new Ice Age, claim scientist

Film-makers taking on our 'global warming hysteria' - The Irish Times - Sat, N

DailyTech - Princeton Physicist Calls Global Warming Science "Mistaken"

DailyTech - Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

Murdock: Even left now laughing at Global Warming | ScrippsNews

Czech president attacks Al Gore's climate campaign

Charleston Daily Mail - West Virginia News and Sports - Don Surber - A scienti

Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told' - Telegraph

Report: Democrats Refuse to Allow Skeptic to Testify Alongside Gore At Congres

Strassel: The Climate Change Climate Change - WSJ.com

Polar Bear Testimony Suppressed Due to 'Inconvenient' Truths | NewsBusters.org

Sen. Inhofe Calls for Inquiry Into 'Suppressed' Climate Change Report - Politi

Nashuatelegraph.com: Global warming warrants cool reception

CNSNews.com - Another New Study Challenges Climate Change ‘Orthodoxy’

Global warming is the new religion of First World urban elites

Global cooling hits Al Gore's home - Telegraph

Big Hollywood » Blog Archive » EXCLUSIVE: Lies Revealed — Greenpeace Leader Ad

CNSNews.com - Scientists Rebut Claim That Man Causes Climate Change

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | What happened to global warming?

Warmist conspiracy exposed? | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog#63657

Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud?

Chicago Area Sees Coldest July Since 1942; Average Temperature Only 68.9 Degre

Climategate: it’s all unravelling now – Telegraph Blogs

Former NASA climate scientist pleads guilty to contract fraud | Washington Exa

Welcome to the Copenhagen Climate Challenge Web Site

Copenhagen climate summit: global warming 'caused by sun's radiation' - Telegr

Famous weather scientist: Climategate 'tip of iceberg'

Climate Depot

You can just read the titles, but you SHOULD read the articles. Face it: you lose.

Philip France
yoyo

Darling busy little bees, thank you for your efforts at educating me. Like i said, this is NOT my fight because i prefer not to go off half cocked. So just some brief points on the responses here.

Matt, my dear old boy, how on earth can you call me a hypocrit? You know bugger all about me. It's a nasty trait to attack people personally if you dont agree with their arguments, I'll give you ten minutes and I bet you can guess what that "strategy" is?
The main problem with pascalls wager (and why it only workd in centuries past) is the question of which god i should be scared of? I dont have time or interest in my lifetime to attend every church, ashram, mosque or coven in the hopes I get it right. And if by chance Thor is the right and almighty god i wouldn't know where to find a congregation. Pascal and your assumption is that Christianity, altho which persuasion I wonder?, is the only option. You make that clear by your chopice of church on Sunday. many jewish friends of mine would have difficulty with that concept.

re the issue of weather global warming is human caused arthogenic(sic) or not I'm not sure. I think people tend to conflate weather and climate which are two obviously different things.
I would like an answer to only four questions at this point.
Why are 181 out of 189 of the worlds glaciers melting?
Why has this been the warmest decade since records were kept?
When my near neighbours (Kirabati, Soloman Islands, Samoa etc)finally end up under water, will america take it's share of refugees?
and finally what the f*k are the airlines doing with the carbon tax they take off us all because i doubt it's doing anything but enhancing their bank balances!

Philip France

Dearest Yoyo,

You seem to be such a child. Here are some of your doozies:

“I think people tend to conflate weather and climate which are two obviously different things.”
Obvious? How are they different? This is another weak, drive-by comment that merits further explanation.

“It's a nasty trait to attack people personally if you dont agree with their arguments,”
You lead the league in this category, although I have noticed that you have improved recently.

And now to your questions:

“Why are 181 out of 189 of the worlds glaciers melting?”
Where did you get such rubbish? The Antarctic glaciers are all growing.

“Why has this been the warmest decade since records were kept?”
Once again, where do you come up with such fallacy? The have been at least seven ice ages in the earth’s history. All of them ended before the Industrial Age. Now, given this, how can one possibly consider that global warming is anthropogenic? This defies millions of years of earth’s history. Greenland was called just that for a very good reason. Behold what “warming” has done to it.

“When my near neighbours (Kirabati, Soloman Islands, Samoa etc)finally end up under water, will america take it's share of refugees?”
A childish question. This is only possible in Al Goreleone Crime Syndicate movies.

“what the f*k are the airlines doing with the carbon tax they take off us”
They are stealing them from you because ninnies like you do not consult the facts regarding this hoax.

I have just supplied you with more than FIFTY articles in support of my claims. How many have you read?

If you and your fellow travelers took your heads out of your behinds you should scream bloody murder at the suggestion that Co2 is even harmful. It is not. In fact, it is HELPFUL. How about the most abundant greenhouse gas: water vapor?. What are you going to say when the climate loons install a meter on your faucet?

Walt

Another funny thing to add about greenhouse gas that we can see with the most abundant greenhouse gas (h20), is that it also acts as an umbrella. Have you ever noticed when a cloud passes in front of the sun it cools off? All gasses in the atmosphere act in this manor; they also absorb and reflect radiant input.

The one thing we really need to be concerned with is geothermal power. Algore says that only a couple of kilometers (his use of the word kilometer should tip you off that he is a European leftist) below the surface the temperature is several million degrees, and that we need to tap that power. What would be wrong with this picture? Well if we transfer this energy that is thousands of times greater than the surface of the sun, to the surface we have a problem! You see our earth has this giant cushioning device against temperature fluctuation, it is called water. Water absorbs tremendous amounts of energy and when it absorbs the energy it exites the water molecules and they jump from the liquid…it evaporates. When it does it phases the energy to what is called latent heat, a cooling effect (simplistic description I know). The energy is still there but not realized as heat. As we draw these "several millions" (Algore said it not me) of degrees from the earth which must represent trillions of BTUs, and since energy can not be destroyed, and since water will evaporate and phase to vapor increasingly in the presence of energy, we must assume our most prolific greenhouse gas (h20) would spiral out of control. Heat/evaporation/ greenhouse/more heat/more greenhouse...we are all going to die. Do we really want to bring all of that extra heat to the surface if it means that is going to cause all of that extra greenhouse?

Of course I am being sarcastic but that simple argument holds more water than the AGW argument. Our planet was designed by a master. Our salt water oceans, mountains, poles, valleys, layers of atmosphere, the water cycle, the CO2-O2 cycle and so on are amazing beyond compare; so much so this blue orb can handle drastic input fluctuations by the sun (which is around 6000 degrees by the way, don't tell Algore) and drastic atmospheric pollution from volcanic events 1000 times more severe than mankind’s total impact.

Philip France

For yoyo and everyone else, here is a terrific article on global lyi,er warming:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138

This article summarizes the 55 other articles that I have previously provided.

yoyo

Phil, whoops wrong on the glaciers and wrong on the temp for this decade but I understand you guys are driven by politics rather than facts.

PS the daily mail is not generally considered a source of anything but boob jobs.

Regarding general nastiness I have never taken the approach of calling respondents here nasty names just because i dont agree. If you can find an example call me on it!

Yes I'm proud to be an atheist, just as some here are proud to be specific types of christians, and I notice none here have answered my crtisisms of Pascalls wager.

It must be hard to come from the country that pays the most for healthcare with the worst access but today I took my immigrant boss for his 7th appointment with a specialist, he's had a colonoscopathy, a gastyropathy,7 different blood tests, 3 cats scans, 2 MRIs and 3 GP visits - total cost $0. All with no waiting period, if that is how we can treat our immigrants I dont think you have anything to shoutabout.

Pascal (the derivative)

The reason I didn't bother to answer your criticism of Pascal's Wager is that it has nothing to do with the issue, and I only mentioned it because of the nature Mr. Craven's displayed his argument.

I've written many times about how the modern world is descending into paganism, and the disregard for the concept of a creator god, what is meant by God in Pascal's Wager, leads people into pessimistic views of sustainability. That God is seen as the provider of existence itself, and everything we encounter we will or will not survive individually. He is the giver to mankind it's sense of self and God-like creativity. It is He and He alone that Pascal was referring. The übergod.

I, Pascal (the derivative), see Pascal's wager tied to a personal faith tied to one's thought's about their own conduct. It is a faith that in reality is not meant to be jammed down anyone's throat, but too often men, usually in the collective, fall short. If the reason you say you're atheist is because of man's history from men who claimed to speak for god, then you should even be less the Leftist you seem, because the history of men who claimed to speak for man's ism's was even worse, as the bloody 20th century attested. All it proved that the problem wasn't with God (if He indeed exists) but always was with men.

What we are witnessing regarding the global warming hysteria, YoYo, is the re-institution of human sacrifices to a lesser god. You claim you are an atheist, but if you buy this AGW malarkey you are believing in a new and lesser god.

This new god's name is Sustainability. There are very clever men who believe that they are best serving humanity by forcing all of us to bow to all the fears that do not meet Sustainability's demands. These include not just reductions in living conditions, but limits on child bearing, denying essential care to pregnant mothers, and to premature infants and newborns (to say nothing of the promotion of abortion and the demonizing of those who suggest alternatives to it), denial of health services to the elderly and the deformed. These "economic based" limits are all part of government health care around the globe. The aim is now to bring it to America next as another form of social justice -- the deadly kind, but seen as "more equitable and thus more just." That is, unless you are a part of the ruling class, then "some animals are more equal than others."

Please notice dear Yoyo, I have not leveled these charges at you, merely at those who haven't the guts to tell you outright that this is their agenda. Not even Mr. Craven, in his follow up videos to his "Most terrifying Video" dared add the non-economic human costs to his "Do something" about global warming box.

og

OK four answers.
Why are 181 out of 189 of the worlds glaciers melting?they're not.
Why has this been the warmest decade since records were kept? it hasn't
When my near neighbours (Kirabati, Soloman Islands, Samoa etc)finally end up under water, will america take it's share of refugees?Please do this experiment. Put an ice cube in a glass half full of water. Mark the water level. Cover the glass in saran wrap so nothing can escape or enter. Note the water level when the ice melts. Fifth graders can figure this out.
and finally what the f*k are the airlines doing with the carbon tax they take off us all because i doubt it's doing anything but enhancing their bank balances! Do you mean how are they coping with government mandated tax on their business? Probably not well.

Now a question for you. How old is the thermometer?

Pascal (the derivative)

Will this finally put an end to the unclosed italics tag?

Philip France

“Phil, whoops wrong on the glaciers and wrong on the temp for this decade but I understand you guys are driven by politics rather than facts.”
Wait, let me get this straight: You admit to being factually incorrect by accusing “us” as being “driven by politics rather than facts”? You are inventing a new form of sophistry that challenges us to find a stronger word than “hypocrisy”. How about “liar”?
“PS the daily mail is not generally considered a source of anything but boob jobs.”
I take it, by the manner of your speech, that you know this by experience.
“Regarding general nastiness I have never taken the approach of calling respondents here nasty names just because i dont agree. If you can find an example call me on it!”
If I recall, Matt called you a hypocrite. That is hardly being “nasty”. He could have called you much worse, based on many of your ridiculous postings. I am glad that he didn’t. I also agree with him. Hypocrisy and lies are the basis of your socio-political opinions. You should know this by now after reading so many of Selwyn’s articles and having your brains cudgeled in the ensuing comments. Do you realize that you have lost (and decidedly) EVERY debate that you have engaged in on this site?
“It must be hard to come from the country that pays the most for healthcare with the worst access”
This is a cheap, drive-by lie. ANYONE who goes to a hospital and/or ER in the US gets health care. WTF do YOU know about what is still the greatest country in the history of the earth? And, so far, no one waits on line.
“total cost $0.”
Yet another lie. This cost was borne by someone. As such, it is unsustainable. Let me teach you leftie lemmings a lesson: NOTHING is “free”. I loathe that expression. Even freedom itself is not free, for its price was the blood of mankind’s most dedicated, and brave.
“if that is how we can treat our immigrants I dont think you have anything to shoutabout”
Are you practicing the shout: “allahu akbar”?
Precious yoyo,
In many ways I like and respect you. You face an army of intellectuals armed only with your feelings and a facile understanding of the world around you (which is based almost entirely on lies, misinformation and deception). As I mentioned previously, you have decidedly lost EVERY debate in which you have engaged in here.
Did you read the article that I inserted? Of course not. Did you read any of the previous 55 articles that I had inserted? Of course not. How do I know? Because I know that leftists like you are afraid of truth. You are afraid to admit that you are and have been wrong. You would be embarrassed to realize that you have been snookered and ashamed to admit that the likes of me, Selwyn, Walt, Shaun, Dan and others were right all along.
I can speak confidently on behalf of the others that I have mentioned in that we take no pleasure in proving you wrong. We are merely the messengers of an eternal message. I truly believe that this is the reason that you continue to visit this site and continue to post comments. You are the proverbial moth that delights in the flame. That flame is Truth and you KNOW it.
Please grow up.

yoyo

Phil, my little beastie, what but rascism has your "allah ackbar" comment, miss-spelt, got to do with universal healthcare?

Yes my boss paid zero dollars for his treatment, however he does pay tax when he does business here and the % of my and his tax that goes to healthcare is 1.2%. Hardly unsustainable, in Holland my father's country they pay 150 euros and that includes dental!

The pascal comment was important in this thread because i was called a hypocrit for not instantly rushing to church based on sophomoric philisophy, easily refutable.

The Daily Mail is a rag, the number of egregious errors pumped out by the favourite mag of the white rights movement and people who love news about Britany Spears is in the thousands. It is not a source for science or even political analysis unless your idea of political analysis is "immigrants scary, kids bad, boobs good, Murdoch double plus good" spiced with a good selection of homeopathic "cures" for AIDs and ads for brothels.

Yes when I travel to the UK I come across this paper, there are right wing papers like the Independant that you would probably agree with that are far less of a cage liner, check them out.

Darlings feel free to prove me wrong, just dont do it with biblical quotes, discussion is a strength for all of us, it makes our arguments stronger.

Pascal (the derivative)

Ah, I missed Matt's comment that built on my reference somehow. He used Pascal's wager in the manner of Pascal, but Matt hadn't yet seen the point I made later that the AGW proponents are wagering that we must accede to the demands of the new god, Sustainability.

Don't you see YoYo? You say you are an atheist, yet you are prepared to sacrifice to Sus.
You are willing to force the rest of us to sacrifice to Sus.
You are willing to let the authoritarians increase their power so they can sacrifice US to Sus.

When they finally come for you YoYo, will you go to Sus willingly? Or will you demand that they recognize you are an atheist? LOL.

Funny, but at that point you might suddenly find solace in being a Christian or a Jew. As they drag you away, you may think about that -- too late -- as you find yourself crying out "Oh God."

Philip France

Don Pascal,

I love your wit and wisdom!

God bless you.

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