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January 06, 2010


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The Dr. Drew Pinsky example you gave is yet another example of assumptive rhetoric disguising as reason; a leftist weapon. Dr. Spock, Dr. Drew and so on are metaphoric demolition engineers, playing their part in the disassembly of western civilization.


I remember a story a few years ago about a little boy, about 11 I think, out with his Boy Scout troop in Utah who got lost, and because of what he was taught all his life he spent a few day actually avoiding the people who were looking for him. It was at that point that people started talking about teaching children to avoid dangerous situations rather than being afraid of all adults in any situation. I think it was called Situational Awareness. The point I’m trying to make is that maybe discipline is like that too. Maybe how you discipline a child should depend on the situation. Just maybe it should depend on the parents, the child, and the specific circumstances. Maybe there are times when a 5 year old should be talked to or timed out, and maybe there are times when a 15 year old darn will should get a spanking – depending on the circumstances of course.

When I was a boy there were still times when a kid, even in High School, would be taken into the principal’s office and a few swats would be administered. I had this happen to me one time in Jr. High. My point is I don’t think it damaged me in any way, nor do I believe any normal kid, of whatever age was damaged by the experience. And, we did not have police roaming our hallways, there was not even the concept of kids coming to school and committing mass murder and, kicking a kid out of school because her Grandmother had sent a cake cutting knife along with the birthday cake for the class, simply could not have happened back then. I’m 62, how could so much have changed in so few years?

Larrry Rivera

The Brothers where I went to school would often administer a spanking to an errant child. It was considered routine and normal. No parent ever complained.

Sometimes, even today, when I do something that is not quite right or proper, I feel that I should be spanked. Whoa... Where did that come from? Delete! Delete! Delete! I was just kidding. Forget it.


A great article selwyn. There is a fine line between spanking and child abuse. A child should never be hit. But a swift swat on the butt or a smack across the top of the head never killed anyone. A 2 year old cant be reasoned with. You cant have a logical discussion with 4 year old. And sometimes a 10 year old doesn't WANT to listen. Spanking transcends all that. Pain speaks a universal language. And pain isn't always bad. Pain lets us know when we have extended ourselves, when stuff is hot, when we shouldn't do or avoid something. It sets the foundation of knowing that when you do something wrong, there is an undesirable consequence.


Good point Dan.

There are some lessons a child MUST learn for their own immediate physical safety. Some children learn easily and some hard. Children have no life experience and do not know that running out into the street might kill them. If a child knows there are punitive consequences when their parent gives an order and they do not listen, they are more likely to listen. However, if a child is spared the rod and does not heed his parents request in a dire circumstance, like "stop! come to me!" if a child is on the side of the road, he may never see adulthood. So when an adult attempts to blame their failures in life on spanking, could it be that the only reason they are alive to complain is because they were spanked?


In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.


Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering (euphemistically labeled "spanking","swatting","switching","smacking", "paddling",or other cute-sounding names) for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.


Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research with the recommended reads-visit the website of Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education.


People used to think it was necessary to "spank" adult members of the community, military trainees, and prisoners. In some countries they still do. In our country, it is considered sexual assault if a person over the age of 18 is "spanked", but only if over the age of 18.
For one thing, buttock-battering can vibrate the pudendal nerve, which can lead to sexual arousal. There are multitudinous other physiological ways in which it can be sexually abusive, but I won't list them all here. One can use the resources I've posted if they want to learn more.


Was it really necessary to do 4 different posts?

Putting aside from the fact that selwyn cited a study showing how spanking kids is good for them. I really am kinda sick of "studies" telling us things we know from common sense to be true. One only needs to take a look around and all the little hellions running rampant and it really doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. Kids are less and less disciplined because they are......less and less disciplined as they grow up.

And lets take a look at your professionals resumes....

Jordan Riak. Retired teacher and an activist.
Thomas Johnson. Couldnt find any credentials on him.
Lesli Taylor, M. D. and Adah Maurer, Ph. D. I looked and looked and looked and couldn't find out what kind of MD Lesli was and what Adah's PHD was in...

So, 1 is NOT a professional. 1 I am assuming is not since I could not find anything on him. And the other 2 we don't know what their specialties are. Selwyns source is very specific.

Oh and I notice how one of your posts was a direct cut and paste from here....

Unless you were that original poster or were quoting that, which you didn't say you were quoting, thats called plagiarism.


'In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law.'

In 3 times as many countries freedom of speech is prohibited by law.

You were saying?


Oh, and I read every word that tripe that is called "NO VITAL ORGANS THERE". And that's the only word that isn't profanity to describe that thing. Tripe. With zero citations for any of the the wild claims made.

Its typical of the "no spanking" crowd. To make no difference between a good ol fashioned hide tanning, and beating a child with all the might an adult can muster. As evidenced by the two quotes on the front page of the "nospank" website. Where that tripe came from.

And the most disgusting thing is these people are obsessed with sexualizing children. EVERYTHING is sexual and and EVERYTHING can warp a child. blah blah blah. Its no wonder kids are having sex and hitting puberty at earlier and earlier ages you SICK people wont stop turning them into sexual objects.

Larrry Rivera

I wanna hear more about vibrating that "pudendal nerve" stuff. Well, actually it's my girlfriend who wants to know....Really.

Sticks and Stones


Promise you won't file a patent on it when you find out.


As Im sure many people have mentioned in this discussion, spanking by itself is not enough to rear a succussful child. The key attribute in raising children has to be love. Abusive parents can easily wail away on their child and produce a monster for society, while devout loving parents can resort to paddling only as a last resort. My Father told me that spanking is not discipline, spanking is when discpline fails.


Philip France

Excellent post Shaun.

I have use a laissez-faire approach to raising my children but I must say that they are both more extraordinary than I could have expected or that I deserved.

I have never had to spank my children and never did (their mother did occasionally). I am fortunate in that in a majority of my dialog I am very soft-spoken. My demeanor and body-language is quiet and gentle. My children have seen me go well out of my way to see that my guests are well-fed and comfortable. They have seen me disagree with others without rancor and to ask "walk-off" questions or make "walk-off" remarks.

In retrospect, this has served to demonstrate to my beloved children that when I stand firm or if I raise my voice (which has been rare) they know to back off and to treat my position with respect and esteem.

Most recently (and anecdotally), my darling daughter, the sweetest and most polite human being on the planet and straight-A student (in Honors classes) wanted her tongue pierced. It is EXTREMELY difficult for me to refuse her, because she is so good.

We conducted simultaneous research. Of course, all of the weblinks that she sent me favored this and all of mine showed that the mouth is a petri dish for harmful bacteria (i.e. wet, dark and moist).

When she saw the depths that I went to in order to protect her well-being, she relented and uttered the words that every Dad swoons at, "Daddy, thanks for looking out for me".

Love people, use things. NEVER flip that around.


I don't know if A equals B. WHen a kid is very young maybe a little spank is appropriate but THIS ISN'T WHY A KID DOES WELL IN SCHOOL.

Using this TOO MUCH I don't think is good. Also the article says they go to college and get good grades or volunteer. That is all great but are they only for PC causes or really good causes. I think the most important trait is being able to think independently at times and not ALWAYS FOLLOW AUTHORITY.

So I would agree at a very young age a spanking may be good I don't think this being done TOO OFTEN IS GOOD as we should do things not out of fear of punishment or the good grades shouldn't be by cheating because we are afraid of being spanked.

I certainlly DON'T THINK this is the MAIN reason a child is doing well as I really wish the study said that they were good socially and care for those less fortunate rather then issues which some people do well in school and volunteer but overall is not a good person.

One bad thing spanking teaches is that might makes right which to a 2 year old you may have no choice but to a 10 year old this being the first response only teaches might makes right.

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