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« Bus Driver to Conservative Child: “Your Mother Should Have Chosen Abortion for You” | Main | Politicians, Catholicism and the False Equivalence »

October 16, 2012

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Robert Berger

The comparison between slavery and abortion is totally specious ,unfair and invalid .
When the Civil War ended, so did slavery . But you can NEVER "end" abortion by making it illegal .
Abortion is not the result of an intentional conspiracy of some group to "Kill babies". It just happens, because of poverty and other adverse social and economic causes .
If anything, it would be a form of slavery for the U.S. government to declare that "by order of the state, all women who are pregnant must give birth or else ". It would reduce poor black and Hispanic women to baby-making machines . They would be the ones worst affected by government-ordered compulsory childbearing . Women who could afford it would just easily fly off to Europe or elsewhere for safe, legal ones, while polor women would risk their lives and health every day at the hands of dangerous back-alley abortionists . The poorest would just kill themsleves with coat hangers and other makeshift devices .

Philip France

Robert says: "Abortion is not the result of an intentional conspiracy of some group to "Kill babies".

He is wrong. It is a conspiracy that has its origins in the eugenics movement of the early 20th century. It was championed by Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood and its goal was to eliminate the negro race and others that they deemed "defectives".

Abortion, plainly and simply, is the murdering of a human baby in the womb (and often outside of it). This practice should be condemned in every circumstance. There is no just or moral means to condone it.

Robert, you should grow up before commenting on sites such as these where people of good conscience and moral values come to read and learn from an erudite intellectual with exceptional observation skills and articulate writing gifts.

Robert Berger

I know all about Margaret Sanger. All the stories about her are FALSE .
She never set out to cause "genocide" against anyone . Abortion was already very common in her lifetime, and had been for thousands of years .
Abortion is not common anywhere because of her . And in fact, more abortions happen in countries where it is illegal than wher eit is legal. Take Brazil, where it is illegal and which is the world's largest Catholic nation. Every year, more abortions happen than in America because of the enormous poverty and lack of access to contraceptives .
If the US government would just provide subsidies for poor pregnant women to provide for their children, born or unborn, the abortion rate would plummet here .But it doesn't do this, so abortion is common. Right to life? Waht about the right of children to decent food,shelter, education and medical care? As long as we have so much pocerty here, abortion will remain common.
But take the prosperous nations of Europe, such as germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria and Scandinavia. These countries have the world's LOWEST abortion rates . Why? Because there is little poverty and a secure safety net for all citizens .

Philip France

Robert,

You comment at many conservative web pages and yet you learn absolutely nothing from them. You are utterly wrong about everything that you espouse. By your comments,you repeatedly demonstrate that you have the social and political acumen of a six year-old.

Trust me: No one who visits these pages and blogs with genuine inquiry wants to hear from you. I respect your right to express such idiocy but why bother?

Instead of vomiting on otherwise mature dialog, you should spend your time reading "The Liberal Mind: The Psycological Causes of Political Madness" by Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr., M.D., one of our nations most highly respected psychiatrists.

Robert Berger

Phil France, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. But what right-wing dolt does ?
If the US government were to make abortion illegal again, it owuld be asolutely catastrophic for America.
Back-alley abortionists would instantly srping into action, and poor women would risk their lives and health every day . The number of dead or seriously injured women would skyrocket . Since Roe v Wade, only a tiny handful of women have died from legal abortions, unlike the past when so many did .
But anti-choicers are in denial abpout this fact. They conveniently ignore the fact that when women died from botched illegal abortions, newspapers did not report this. And if women lose reproductive freedom , there will be absolutely no way to enforce laws against abortion . No country has ever been able to do this . In order to enforce the law in an America where abortion was illegal again, the government would have to turn this nation into a totalitarian police state with women under constrant surveillance to make sure no abortions were happening .
America would not be a "free" nation at all, but would become a nightmare scenario right out of Orwell's 1984 .And abortion would still be rampant .

Philip France

Robert,

You are out of your mind. You have no idea of what you are talking about. You should be talking about the murder of babies in their mother's womb, which should be the safest place on earth.

You are one of Lenin's useful idiots and you bought the Frankfurt School lies hook-line-and-sinker.

Please go away.

JasonP

Very nice discussion, Mr. Duke, but you present a false alternative. It’s subtly implicit in your text here: “So a just law must reflect morality, but what is morality? Who determines it? There are only two possibilities: man or something outside of man does.”

You are implying that all moral law is positive law with the only question being who posits the law: man or God. You leave out the possibility that law is discovered in nature.

Let’s consider the statement “smoking two packs of cigarettes is bad.” This, of course, was discovered. It wasn’t posited by God and told to Moses. Nor was it posited by government. It was discovered. Such excessive smoking harms health and threatens one’s life.

Now let’s assert that the institution of private property is good. This, too, was discovered. Almost all societies (Christian and pagan) realized, to some degree, that production is to be encouraged and long-range projects undertaking (like farming) some respect for private property is required. Locke abstracted this truth and showed it was an absolute right by arguing that reasoned productive activity requires it. Marx argued against it and famine, slaughter, and suffering followed.

Thus, empirical evidence established the importance of private property to human life just as absolutely as medicine discovers the rules to lead a healthy life with respect to physiology.

Now if you want to say nature’s laws (physics, medicine, ethical) are authored by nature’s creator and are therefore His laws, please do so. But in that case they clearly can be discovered by examining his works, i.e. nature, whether one reads His word or not.

Robert Berger

Phil France, you just don't realize the simple fact that abortions, tragic as they are, are going to happen whether they are egal or not . There is absolutley no way to stop women from having them. The only way to prevent abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancies and to provide thew kind of help poor pregnant women need for their children so they will not have them .
The more overty in a nation, the more abortions. The less poverty, the fewer abortions. This is why the prosperous nations of western Europe and Scandinavia have the world's lowest abortions .

Selwyn Duke

Dear JasonP,

I have responded to your post as a blog piece. You can view my response on the home page.

God bless,

Selwyn Duke

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