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June 14, 2013

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Robert Berger

Selwyn, you're set up more than enough straw men here to create a fire hazard . First of all, gay people are not trying to "shove their lifestyle" in anyone's face . On the contrary, it's American Christians, certainly not all of them, who are trying to shove their Christianity in the face of non-christians .
Tell me, Selwyn, when was the last time a gay man barged into your home and tried to force you to be gay ? This has certainly never happened to me . The vast majority of gays ar ejust ordinary people who mind their own business and bother or threaten no one .And don't assume I'm gay just because I believe in gay rights . Martin Luther King always spoke out against anti-semitism.
Does that mean he was a Jew ?
I'm not anti-christian ,and I don't condemn anyone merely for being a Christian . But I will not tolerate any Christian who wants to interfere in the private lives of non-christians and is determined to force our government to violate the rights of those non-christians. Unfortunately, there are too many of these narrow-minded,intolerant and self-righteous Christians in America today .

Philip France

Mr. Duke,

Thank you and congratulations for this excellent column. It is perhaps the best that you have written (thus far).

God bless you and Happy Father's Day,

Philip

Philip France

Reprobate adj 1 archaic: rejected as worthless or not standing a test: CONDEMNED 2 a: foreordained to damnation b morally abandoned : DEPRAVED 3 : expressing or involving reprobation 4 : of, relating to, or characteristic of a reprobate.

Justin

Tell me, Robert, when was the last time someone barged into your home and tried to force you to be Christian?

John

Hate to say it, Berger, but you sound like the typical troll who finds a non-liberal site to call "his buddy" and, well, troll.

Robert Berger

No, Christians haven't tried to force me to become a Christian, but a heck of lot of them want
to force the U.S. government to make unjust and repressive lws which would violate the rights
of so many Americans .
I don't have the space to list them . s I've said before, I don't care what religion people follow as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to interfere with the lives of those hwo don't share their religious beliefs and violate their rights .

Justin

You're so emotional that you don't even know what you say and miss the point. I was simply using your own argument against you. You wrote, "when was the last time a gay man barged into your home and tried to force you to be gay?" So I responded with, Tell me, Robert, when was the last time someone barged into your home and tried to force you to be Christian? Following your own logic, there should be no threat of Christian dominance because no one has barged into your and tried to make your Christian.

Anyway, I'm with you in the way. I don't care what politics people follow as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to interfere with the lives of those who don't share their political beliefs and violate their rights .

Philip France

Justin,

Rober the Reprobate HAS no logic. He merely gainsays anything speaking of morality and virtue.

He is as though you invited him into your home and then he proceeds to defecate on your dining room table. It would surprise me not a whit if he has already done so.

Listener

Wow. Both men arguing over homosexuality and evangelical Christianity agree on the one thing the point of this entire column was against. Brilliant. The point was that the whole, "Let's all just do our own thing and don't push it on others" philosophy/mindset is based on a faulty foundation. It has never worked at any point in history ever.

Robert Berger

Right-wing extremists like Selwyn and the toadies who are his yes men and praise him in their comments here (Phil France etc) think ) they have a monopoly on virtue and morality ,and that anyone who disagrees with them is automatically a wicked Godless, hedonistic, anti-christian commie pinko wo wants to oppress all Christinas in America and impose communism on America and turn it into another Soviet Union .
And that if you belkiev ein gay rights you must be a homosexual yourself who wants public schools to allow gay men to prey on young boys etc .
They are hypocrites who say that "All men are created equal - except for homosexuals ".
They call for "smaller government" and limited government" while wanting unlimited power for th egovernment to pry into the bedrooms of Americans and persecute them for any sexual behavior which THEY happen to disapprove of , as well as for the government to be in women's reproductive organs and to tell thewm what they may or not do with their bodies . Some "limited government ". With freedom like this who needs tyranny ?

Philip France

Robert the Reprobate defines himself perfectly: "that anyone who disagrees with them is automatically a wicked Godless, hedonistic, anti-christian commie pinko wo wants to oppress all Christinas in America and impose communism on America and turn it into another Soviet Union ."

Robert Berger

Phil France, get an education, get a brain, and get a life ! Let's face it; you are na abysmally ignorant, stupid, narrow-minded,intolerant, self-righteous and fanatical evangelical Christian jackass . People like you will be the destruction of America . You are an enabler of the religious right, which is the American Taliban . Selwyn Puke is an even worse enabler of it .

Philip France

Robert the Reprobate,

You are an overgrown child. Take your tantrums elsewhere, please. You say that I am narrow-minded. How can a person who not only believes in, but is fully persuaded that an invisible God exists be narrow-minded? No, it is you that is narrow-minded: you cannot think outside of the PC campus bubble (Political Correctness is a euphemism for cultural Marxism).

Your views are backward on every subject of social and political consequence. Abortion: Wrong. Affirmative Action: Wrong. Faux “marriage”: Wrong. 2nd Amendment freedom: Wrong. Islam: Wrong.

You are a doctrinaire leftist. When are you and people of your ilk going to apologize for the millions of Africans who were killed because morons like you invented the DDT scare? When are you and those of your persuasion going to apologize for the millions of South Vietnamese and Cambodians who were murdered by your Communist fellow-travelers or who drowned in the South China sea? When are you and your fellow quislings going to apologize for the 50+ million murdered babies (roughly 70% of whom were to black mothers) because your believe the lies told to you by the racist and eugenicist Margaret Sanger and Bernard Nathanson (he was the founder of NARAL but is now staunchly pro life and now admits that he lied and grossly exaggerated statistics about infanticide)?

You say that people like me will be the destruction of America. Look at the track record of people like you! I have said before that you believe the way that you do because the brutal monster Joseph Stalin wanted you to believe that way. How do I know? Here’s how: http://vimeo.com/63749370.

After you are finished watching, here’s a dessert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gON-8PP6zgQ. If you do not watch these, than don’t ever call me or anyone else narrow-minded. You should swallow your tongue you ignorant fool.

Robert Berger

Phil, you ARE extremely narrow-minded, because you have absolutely no tolerance for those who do not share your religious and political views. I'm not a communist and have never been one . And loook at all th ehorrible things Christinaity has done to humanity in th epast 2,000 years ;
oppression and slaughter of Jews long before Hitler; slaughter of innocent women believed to be witches; the Spanish Inquisition ; fostering of bigotry and violence against homosexuals ;
cover ups of child rape by priests ; hoodwinking countless gullible,ignorant and naive people into being terrified of a non-existent hell if they do not follow the church and line its coffers with their money ; greedy,unscrupulous televangelists who deprive people of their miney by hoodwinkinbg them ; faith healing fraud ; and that's just the tip of the iceberg . Christinity is a 2,000 year old scam and fraud and pure evil . I dont think you're evil; you've just been hoodwinked to be a Christian from childhood and are blind to the evils of this horrible religion, which is no better than Islam .

Philip France

Robert the Reprobate says: “Phil, you ARE extremely narrow-minded, because you have absolutely no tolerance for those who do not share your religious and political views.”

I say: Baloney! Two of my favorite intellectual heroes are radio show host and best selling author Dennis Prager, a religious Jew and our very own Selwyn Duke, a Roman Catholic. I am an unorthodox Protestant Christian. You are wrong yet again. You are worse than a broken clock, which is at least right twice a day.

Robert the Reprobate says: “I'm not a communist and have never been one .”

I say: So what? Your worldview as demonstrated by your remarks show that you have more in common with Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and Robert Mugabe (not to mention Barack Hussein Obama II) than you have with Locke, Jefferson, Hamilton, Washington, Franklin, Paine, Burke, etc.

Robert the Reprobate says: “And loook at all th ehorrible things Christinaity has done to humanity in th epast 2,000 years ;”

I say: You have to go back 2,000 years in order to assail Christianity? Name one horrible thing that Christianity has done in the last 500 years? You also ignore all of the excellent things that Christianity has wrought, such as the Renaissance, the founding of the United States, the abolition of slavery and much, much more. It was people like you that fought abolition, instituted Jim Crow laws and fought the Civil Rights movement. That’s right: all liberal Democrats like George Wallace, Lester Maddox, Scoop Jackson, J. William Fulbright (Bill Clinton’s mentor). You are wrong yet again. What about all of the great missionaries that bring comfort, joy and nourishment to the impoverished in places like Calcutta; who risk their lives to bring the Gospel to God-forsaken places like North Korea?

Robert the Reprobate says: “Christinity is a 2,000 year old scam and fraud and pure evil .”

I say: Pure evil? Do realize just how very ignorant you are? You should read that again and truly ask yourself what is wrong with you.

Robert the Reprobate says: “I dont think you're evil; you've just been hoodwinked to be a Christian from childhood and are blind to the evils of this horrible religion, which is no better than Islam .”
I say: Wrong again. I was raised as a Roman Catholic but after completing University courses in Biblical Research in understanding Ancient Greek, Hebrew and Estrangelo Aramiac, I decided that “sole scriptura” (Scripture only) Protestantism was truer to my educational discoveries than Catholicism.
No better than Islam? You truly are insane. You must really hate yourself to say such things. The deeper in the hole of moral bankruptcy that you get, the harder you dig. I’m not a betting man but I would wager that, deep down, you really know how very wrong and invirtuous you are but you are in it so deep that you are frightened, even terrorized to realize the error of your ways.

Robert Berger

Wake up ! You are blind to the countless horrible things that have been done in the name of Christianity.I don't have space to list them here. I'm not saying that Christianity has never done any good, but let's face it ; the bad overwhelms the good .
To say that I have the same authoritarian, totalitarian views as Hitler,Stalin,Mao etc is beyond idiotic . I'm a (moderate) liberal. Naziism and communism re NOT liberal . Anything but .
They are fascist, not liberal . I don't condemn you for being a Christian , nor anyone else .
I'm just opposed, as many other Americans are, to religion getting power in America .
That's exactly what too many Christians want . The founding fathers meant for America to be a SECULAR nation in which there would be religious freedom for all , not a theocracy , which is no better than Naziism or communism. I'm opposed to tyranny of whatever kind .I don't care what religion people follow, as long as they keep it to themselves. But people like you DON'T want to keep your Christianity to yourselves .

Philip France

Robert the Reprobate,

You are a hopeless moron. You call Christianity "pure evil". You have a brain capacity of an earthworm. From henceforth I will never read a comment from you, you filthy puke. You should commit suicide.

sticks n stones

"(T)he foundation of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality; ...the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained..." George Washington, First Inaugural, April 30 1789

sticks n stones

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

sticks n stones

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

Robert Berger

Jefferson, Adams and Washington were not devout Christians and rarely if ever attended church .
They were not opposed to individual people being VChristian, but were utterly opposed to Christianity getting power in America . Jefferson was a deist and had a very low opinion of Christianity as a religion .You can read his quotes about this.
Ben Franklin said that "lighthouses were more valuable than religion" .Jefferson called the Bible
a "dungheap ". He did not believe in the divinity of Jesus and prepared an edition of the bible with all references to the supposed miracles of Jesus . He admired Jesus s a moral teacher ,but hated religious tyranny .
You do NOT need to be a believing Christian to be a good ,decent and moral person, and many Christians are scoundrels . But Christians cherry pick the Bible to justify their own agenda and use the founding fathers as an excuse,too . NONE of them shared the beliefs of many Christians in America today .

sticks n stones

Benjamin Franklin Requests Prayer in the Constitutional Convention

June 28, 1787

"Mr. President [to George Washington]

The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other-our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.

In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service-"

sticks n stones

"Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards, there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine, a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy."

sticks n stones

"Work as if you were to live a hundred years, Pray as if you were to die tomorrow."

Philip France

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good Citizens and soldiers we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of Religion. To the distinguished Character of Patriot, it should be our highest Glory to add the more distinguished Character of Christian." --George Washington

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." --John Adams

"May every citizen ... have a proper sense of the Deity upon his mind and an impression of the declaration recorded in the Bible, 'Him that honoreth Me I will honor, but he that despiseth Me shall be lightly esteemed.'" --Samuel Adams

"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." --Benjamin Franklin

"The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities impressed with it." --James Madison

"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among parchments and musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the Hand of Divinity itself, and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power." --Alexander Hamilton

"But where says some is the king of America? I'll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the Royal Brute of Britain. ... [L]et it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America THE LAW IS king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other. But lest any ill use should afterwards arise, let the crown at the conclusion of the ceremony be demolished, and scattered among the people whose right it is." --Thomas Paine in Common Sense

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